Now (albeit belatedly) done. Image not available to guests

 
The Chairman and founder is Dr Andrew Seedhouse who, many years ago, was my predecessor here at the Devon & Cornwall Rail Partnership.

More about them here https://www.talktosam.co.uk/about-us

 
If you go to this portal, it says this about itself:


In one place this site identifies itself as Travelwest, but mostly it doesn't - so it is? Or is "what exactly is Travelwest" just not an easy question to answer?

 
Not sure which section to put this, so apologies if wrong

South West Smart applications (a membership based central purchasing body) has issued a tender for 8 years covering:

1) Content Management systems (value £20m)
2) Ticket Vending machines (value £20m)
3) Electronic Ticket Machines (value £20m)
4) Assessable Rail Information and support units (£20m)
5) Transport and Data managed Services (value £20m)

https://bidstats.uk/tenders/2025/W36/853737845

Not really sure who they are, or how it might affect anyone in South West, does anyone know more ?

 
There was this from Metro Report International

But that was in development in 2020, and of course is just software; you'd need to add a some more stuff to it. Like a Renesas RX72N  microcontroller, advertised as

But that's still just a chip, so you'll need to already have a machine, or else add your own screen ... speaker ... card payment terminal ... coin and note handling ... ticket printing ... power supplies ... housing ... plus a few other bits.

 
Wouldn't surprised me; cashpoints sometimes have a 3.5mm socket that I presume you can plug headphone sockets into and be guided through if you have a sight impairment (probably wouldn't be wise in that context to allow the feedback to be overheard).  I can't see it working on a TVM for any but the most straightforward tickets.  Probably overtaken by events now anyway, as it would generally be easier to buy tickets online using whatever assisting technology the individual already has on his/her device. 

 
Some one passed me a comment that somewhere in Europe they were trialing talking ticket issue machines.

Any one else heard anything?

 
I didn't know that was a thing on that app!

 

Correct its only been open 4 years. Its still not listed under nearest stations on the national rail APP ether.

 
WOP?

(added: Worcestershire Parkway - needs adding to short-code look-up)

 
The Machine at Pershore has now been upgraded to allow purchase of tickets for journeys from other stations.

However I am not sure if I should be posting this in the lighter side.

Can members guess which other local station is missing from the list of stations.

 

Well done  Image not available to guests - it was inevitable really  Image not available to guests

 

Thank you for the correction. My error.

An All Line Rover is promoted as an "anytime" but has restrictions on in use at certain stations on services of certain TOCS prior to 10 a.m ...

 

Minor point of order; I’ve corrected the name of the ticket you’ve quoted - I was struggling to get my head around an “Anytime” ticket having time restrictions, although with the fare system in this country I suppose I shouldn’t really be surprised if such a thing existed (maybe it does?).

 
If I were traveling to Bristol Parkway this morning, this is how I would travel:
10:02 Melksham -> 10:34 Swindon
10:42 Swindon -> 11:03 Bristol Parkway

What National Rail tells me - even if I ask for "fastest":
10:02 Melksham -> 10:12 Chippenham
10:33 Chippenham -> 10:58 Bristol Temple Meads
11:35 Bristol Temple Meads -> 11:43 Bristol Parkway

There is no Melksham to Bristol Parkway ticket specifically available for the fastest journey I have identified with no help from National Rail, but I am allowed to make the journey ...
a) If I am on a ticket such as an FOSS Rover
b) If I purchase a Melksham to Swindon and a Swindon to Parkway ticket
c) If I purchase a Melksham to Severn Tunnel Junction ticket and travel short

 
If you plan a journey using a via point and a change is required, see journey details doesn't break the journey down to show the separate trains.

 

Good question.

Is it possible for any piece of software to implement the Routing Guide as it is currently written, and on that basis is the routing guide itself fit for purpose? 

Is there a better way to describe those magic words "any permitted" which hide a veritable galaxy of wonders and wobblies?   

Could we restart with "Any reasonable" and come up with something based on previous discussions here at the Coffee Shop?

 
From the Rail Delivery Group's Routeing Guide frontpage:

My question:

Is the new incarnation of the National Rail Journey Planner fit for the above purpose?

 

There are still two off peak day return fares Bath Spa to London via Salisbury and Warminster there - first class and standard class - according to BRfares. Still there from 2nd January too. Price is £66.20 (adult, no railcard)

If you want something a bit different, try an anytime day return from Portway Park and Ride to London via Warminster and Salisbury at £43.40 - it's restricted in that you may not arrive into Waterloo before 10:00, but there are no restrictions on the return time.

 
New year impending, new travel plans. From Bath, checking a couple of 'Via Salisbury' return journeys on the National Rail site.

With the site updated, it's now difficult to tell what sort of ticket that's on offer, especially for anything via London.

It's tricky to pick up, from a list of trains around a particular time, when the transitions are between peak and off peak, that being obscured by the site offering a mix of unrestricted and advance tickets.

The brfares.com site is a useful companion as it reveals the range of fares available, but that's hardly an approach that the majority of rail travellers will consider. Since many advance tickets are offering only a trivial discount over less restricted ones, the site could do with an option to exclude advance fares.

The Bristol / Bath to London day return fare, it's been withdrawn, yes?

Mark

 
That's good news,
regarding the car parking tickets,I recall when you could buy them from the booking office, at least ten years ago.

 
GWR TVMs are being updated (should have been  by now) to allow purchase of tickets to/from other stations ie you are no longer limited to buying a ticket with origin of where the TVM is, but you can purchase Anywhere to Anywhere.

They were also meant to be able to sell car parking tickets for stations with car parks that are run by APCOA, but that has been pushed back to January next year.

 

I panicked for a moment there - changes to APIs and sites that are scraped are the bane of the life of live web site operations. However, I don't think think this breaks the Coffee Shop in a major way.  Links at the top of the pages here still work.  It does, though, give a problem on one of the links from pages like this for TRO...bridge http://new.passenger.chat/better/map.html?stn=TRO - and I also need to sort out a couple of other links there!!

 
The new site has broken everyone’s live departure board bookmarks. Not clever.

(I use the TrainSplit app for buying tickets - simple, fast, independent, and finds useful savings.)

 
For complex journeys I will sometimes use a split ticket website (usually https://tickets.railforums.co.uk/) to confirm my own searching of BRFares, but then buy them from another source to avoid the "finder's fee".

 

Everyday use, I tend to go to GWR, mainly because it's a lottery whether or not my train from/to Melksham is going to run, so I may as well stop there and buy tickets if there's anything running or at least only delayed and not cancelled.

https://book.splitmyfare.co.uk/ seems to come up with the best options for more complex journeys I find.

 

TVM most often. Then Templecombe ticket office. Then Virgin Trains Ticketing.

For longer distance journeys, I'll do my own research on prices, validity, routeing and split ticketing.

 
Those few comments lead me to the question -
Which site (s) do YOU plan/purchase your journey tickets from?

 
It doesn't let me buy a weekday ticket from Melksham that gets me to work in Westbury on time. In theory I start work at 09:30. My usual train leaves Melksham at 09.10 and arrives in Westbury at 09.26 [sometimes... it's usually late]. Unfortunately I then have a 20 minute walk from the station in Westbury. So, I make up the 15 minutes or so that I'm late each morning by staying (very!) late. However I'm aware that there is a service that leaves Melksham at 07.21 and, with two changes (at Chippenham and Bath Spa), gets me into Westbury at 09:05 - a longer journey, and more expensive; but it does at least get me to work on time. The National Rail site referred to here however responds with "no fares available. Please choose another journey." The RailEasy site lets me buy it - admittedly at seven times the cost of a regular return fare, but surely that should be for me to decide?

 

I find it by far the most straightforward and reliable site to use, for planning, up to date information on disruption etc - always seems to be ahead of the others.

 
 Image not available to guests Image not available to guests Image not available to guests Image not available to guests Image not available to guests Image not available to guests

Failed at first attempt.

Tried a journey from Trowbridge to Slaithwaite.

Shows up as
But it's not the 14:08 that's cancelled, its one of the later stages of the journey. I haven't found out which one yet, as the JP doesn't let you see the later journey details if anything is cancelled.

 
(The site's being updated in stages, the latest is possibly 'Recent' rather than 'December', but the refreshed look now continues through the ticket transaction rather than reverting to the previous interface halfway through.)

It'd be good to hear how people are getting on with it. A big positive is that it's now easier to set a 'Via'. On the negative side, it's possible that for many it's a bit more complicated to find prices for return tickets - reflecting perhaps that the railways would like travellers to buy singles. They *are* there though.

Mark

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/

 

If so, definitely a daft one!

 

Graham is right - they need a hardware upgrade (to Northern Rail standards at least) with a resultant software patch before they could be made available. GWR are suggesting phone & on-train I believe, so no suggestion of this upgrade. Probably DfT decision.

 

If anything, I'd expected it to be a change by whoever operates it to the data fed into the machine telling it what to do, rather than needing a change to software or hardware by the supplier. Ultimately the TVM itself should be a dumb machine that prints what it's told on the front of the ticket and codes corresponding 1s and 0s on the magnetic stripe as instructed. That though wouldn't allow the supplier to profit every time their customer wants the machine to do something different...

 

Yes, that's right, Graham.  Northern ticket machines have the full range of rovers and rangers.  I was at Skipton in July and saw you could buy a St Ives Bay Line Day Ranger from the machine there.    Not the same machines as almost all of those on GWR.

 

No.

But they CAN already be bought at the TVMs of certain TOCs.    I understand that you could get an "Explore the Valley Day Ranger" an Knaresborough ...

As explained to me, it's not just a software update but a need to add oomph to the hardware of older design or meaner specified TVMs

 
Hi all

Have any dates been given as to when the TVM software will be updated to allow rover and ranger tickets to be bought on TVMs?

Thanks in advance

 

Because the idea of closing ticket offices is to save costs.  If a room or rooms formerly used for selling tickets is still being used by the TOC, the savings won’t be anywhere near as much as if those room(s) were repurposed or demolished.

 
The stated intent is that stations will remain staffed on virtually identical hours to current planned ticket office staffing, and if you accept that at face value you still need staff loos, recreation areas, places to keep their private things, etc.

But there are a couple of problems there. 

* Ticket offices are not currently open to the agreed and published hours.  Signs on the door "we have closed early", "we will be open late" and even "we are only open Ad Hoc when we have staff" and I don't see any published plans to fill the vacancies and get staffing levels back up so that they are open for the  contacted time

* With staffing being unreliable, you have people no longer able to rely on staff.  Some don't use the railway any more, others find alternatives and you have less need for the staff - and in that scenario and with nothing being done to fix, you are on a downward spiral where staff in any role are less required - you've driven away those awkward customers who use them

 

Why would you say that unless you thought that the opposite (those areas might close) might be thought likely?

 

I said that, but thought it was fairly clear what i meant, which was that the existing area used for the ticket office at a lot of smaller stations will potentially need to remain an area used for staff for welfare facilities.  By which I mean somewhere they can take a break, store their belongings etc.  The exact situation will vary from station to station.

But, I can’t see any connection with that and your statement that it was ‘common thinking’ that staff would be banished from using existing station buildings?

 

If a building or room is not required for its original purpose ... logic suggests there are a number of options ...
Open a travel and information centre
Coffee Shop or other cafe
Retail outlet
Housing
Sheltered Accommodation
Air B&B
Museum
Cinema
Creche
Community Room
Staff or BTP Offices
Public Loo
Rail industry supply depot
Demolish it

 
"will have to remain" meaning they were in danger of going? Said who?

 

I don’t know, have they?  I can’t remember hearing it said.  You said it was ‘common thinking’?

 

Someone else feels the same way as I do else why the comment? Someone has suggested that they won't remain?

 

Or are seen a valuable retail outlet space

 

Agreed - but it's not beyond the realm of future speculation as station buildings need repair and perhaps lie out of use that they could end up being demolished.  Modern protection for history will probably ensure Frome and Bradford-on-Avon and safe, but I wonder about Trowbridge and Warminster - just looking at currently staffed ticket offices in my home area. Westbury is probably safe as it, surely staffed for a few years.

 

I don’t think anyone has suggested staff will be banished from existing station buildings.

 
Why is it common thinking that the station buildings will be shut just because they want to shut *ticket* offices? The tuicket office is that place you find behind the glass frontage, not the whole actual building. so staff will remain within the public area of the station building as well as helping passengers out on the platforms. They aren't being banished from the buildings. And they will still have restrooms too.

 

Talking to staff at one tube station when the ticket offices were killed off they told me they couldn’t issue me with an Annual Travelcard with Gold Record Card. I asked if they still had the machine in the office and they said “No”. I asked what the point of removing the ticket machine from the office was and they said “There wasn’t one, at least not one that benefits the passenger.”

 
Small.

 

Indeed. Which means the savings to the rail company will be...?

 
This is why I think at a lot of stations the existing ticket office will have to remain in order to provide welfare facilities for staff. 

It just won’t have a ticket machine in it!

 
The passengers might only be on the station a short time. The staff, on the other hand, might be expected to be there for several hours.

It’s not a job I’d want to do in the winter months.

 
Never mind the passengers?

 

Exactly this. Oldfield Park was the same, a completely useless TVM that didn't work at the first sight of dampness, and was impossible to see in sunshine due to glare. Along with a screen that would seize up halfway through any transaction by not responding to touch just when you were ready to pay. And this is just one of the majority of stations with no building, no warmth and very little shelter from the elements.

 

GWR already have form for this. The TVM at Hungerford was removed because it had been installed outside and the touch sensitive screen would get wet every time it rained. It was also not properly connected so you couldn't collect tickets. During peak hours, the solution has been to put a GWR RPI on the station to sell tickets. I'd argue this is conclusive proof that proper investment in TVMs has not been made and that having a real person selling tickets is considered more cost-effective by GWR than a working TVM and/or no ticket facilities.

The RPI has to follow the new model for station staff. There's no ticket office or heated waiting room, so they have to stand under a shelter or the footbridge to protect themselves from the weather. A far cry from proper station that Hungerford once was.

 

No, this is when you need ticket offices even more than usual.

 
Somebody entered "rogue" travel data into the system. You should be able to travel within a week!

 
Probably a "train data issue"  Image not available to guests Image not available to guests

 

Or a half decent network engineer  Image not available to guests

From "The search for Spock"

Scotty : Aye, sir. The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.

 

Is this when you need ticket offices then??

 
From Journeycheck:

 
Thanks, Graham. My thought of a possible software upgrade comes from a vague memory that, when the old machine was first installed, you couldn't use it to buy tickets from another station, but that facility was added later.

While it's true that the new machine is quicker to use than the old one was, I don't think that the absence of the button in the corner of the screen offering tickets from another station (which is what we had before) makes a significant difference to the time taken to buy a ticket.

It's helpful to be able to buy split tickets from a station such as Clifton Down. When making an early start on a journey beyond Temple Meads, a through ticket for the journey may be available only as an expensive Anytime. By splitting, it can be possible to combine an Anytime ticket for the first leg (and Anytime tickets for the Severn Beach Line itself are very cheap) with an Off-peak ticket from an intermediate point.

It was also useful when travelling to Clifton Down from a local station which doesn't have a ticket machine, since if the guard didn't come round you could buy your ticket on arrival.

As to the advice to pay the train manager, the TMs on the Severn Beach Line are always very helpful, but since Clifton Down is a Penalty Fares station (and has a ticket machine), I would be wary of boarding the train without a ticket without first speaking to the on-train staff.

Of course, it's now possible to tap in with a GWR smartcard, though I haven't tried one myself yet, and one can also buy split tickets online and then collect them from the machine, or have them delivered as an e-ticket.

 

I wouldn't expect that if I were you.

1. A machine with less options offers a quicker average transaction time and means that you (if you are a TOC) can get away with fewer machines.  From a passenger viewpoint, it may be easier to find the right ticket too

2. You (if you are a TOC) can reduce the sale of split journey tickets, redirecting sales to the tickets intended for the journey that are in the industry fare manual, end to end. From a passenger viewpoint, the chance of getting an invalid ticket or combination is reduced,

3. The machines or software may be less complicated and cheaper for the TOC to buy or lease.

"Most tickets available here - if you can't find the tickets you need r aren't sure, please use the staffed ticket counter or if there is no counter available, please pay the train manager" seems reasonable.

 

Indeed. Several ticket machines on the GWR network have been replaced in recent months. At Clifton Down, the old machine did allow purchase of tickets from another station. The new machine (of a different type) doesn't. I don't know whether we should expect a software update that will enable that facility again.

I don't know about Southern's machines, but I wouldn't rely on being able to purchase tickets from another station without checking the ticket machine in question in advance.

 
Also depends on the software. The Machine at Pershore provided by GWR looks exactly like the machine at Worcester Shrub Hill provided by West Midland trains. However while the West Midland machine allows purchase of tickets starting from other stations the GWR machine does not, Nether do the more modern GWR machines at Worcestershire Parkway.

 
The original question was whether you can choose a different origin at a station's TVM.

The answer is, it depends.

Some machines allow it, some don't. I know that SWR's Scheitt & Bachmann TVMs allow you to choose a different origin. I've done so a few times at Templecombe when wanting split tickets. I'm fairly certain that most Southern TVMs also allow you to choose a different origin station.

 
The answer to your original question is yes you can collect from any station
After selecting the ticket the screen has the option to where the ticket can be collected
It defaults to the departure station but can be amended to any station
Easily done and easy to collect

 
Thank you Richard.
I've already suggested railuk tickets (but note it also uses TrainSplit front page).
Assume railuk takes a cut from ticket purchase via TrainSplit.
She has an aversion to most websites that ask for your soul and blood details, etc! (Don't ask.........)

 
At the risk of being frightfully 21st century, I'd suggest she uses the TrainSplit app to get the ticket on her phone - that will let you buy with any starting place, and will work out the splits for you.

 
Morning all,

Daughter in Worthing has just randomly asked if they can purchase a ticket from a Worthing ticket machine for departure from, say, Gatwick, or a different station?

I suggested the ticket office would be a far better bet, who could (when prodded?) also check splits.

This has raised my curiosity, as I've never used a ticket machine  Image not available to guests

 
It's made worse for Travelcards because the printed ticket only refers to "advertised terms and conditions" and not the URL for the restriction code.

 
There is the backup of the QR code I suppose. For those who can use, or know how to use them.

Agree though. Not very clever programming.

 
Went to buy an off-peak travelcard from my local GWR station.

As you can see from the attached picture, it's not possible to determine the restriction code on the ticket because the prompt to press the pay now button obscures part of the restriction code. Didn't anyone test this?

 
What has changed is you no longer have to wait two hours before you can collect tickets from a TVM so if you don’t want a digital ticket you can get it from a TVM much sooner.

 
As Victor Meldrew would say ... "I don't BELIEVE it" ... 10 years on and I don't think even today I can get a Groupsave out of the TVM at my local station - unless I order it online ahead of time for collection ...

13th January (2012)