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Heritage railways and how they connect with the larger infrastructure
28.8.2025 (Thursday) 07:14 - All running AOK
 
Re: Heritage railways and how they connect with the larger infrastructure
Posted by grahame at 06:51, 28th August 2025
 
Thank you for this thought-provoking answer. It's always difficult making international comparisons. What you say does surprise me: do German local authorities really have cash available to subsidise steam railways? Are EU funds really directed to areas that look - from Graham's photos - to be extremely well-off?

Maybe UK heritage railways have subsidies that aren't available in Germany? I'm thinking of the zero-VAT in UK, whereas VAT is levied on train fares in Germany.

The Molli, The Rugen and Zittau railways, and the Harz, are all in former East Germany and perhaps that's no co-incidence. Former, really impressive buildings on the coast or in the mountains which perhaps were holiday homes / retreats or state camps for children and teenagers as they grew and were educated into good citizens became or had become run down and there was / has been considerable investment in bringing them up to date.    There remains, if you look "around the back", decayed / un-restored / un-redeveloped parts, and goodness only knows how many people actually own their own homes.   I would suggest that there is still a substantial local holiday / day trip / vacation traffic to the seaside and mountains, and that many of these parts of Germany have sectors in which the car never became the 99% way of getting around as it has in most of the UK.  Paradoxically, I found myself feeling the absence of cars and the presence of walking, cycling and buses earlier this year in Lambeth, and again much nice looking restored old property.

Re: Heritage railways and how they connect with the larger infrastructure
Posted by Trowres at 00:28, 28th August 2025
 
There are places where this co-operation has led to fruitful interactions to the mutual benefit of the national and heritage railways. The Spa Valley Railway with their parallel running into Eridge and the Chinnor and Princes Risborough with their brand new Chinnor Independent Line parallel to NR's Thame Branch Siding.

I think a few others have through ticketing arrangements as well.

Through ticketing arrangements are hard to find...
So far,  I've found the following:
South Devon Railway - from many GWR stations (no railcard discounts)
Cholsey and Wallingford - from GWR Thames Valley stations
Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway - from some stations served by Northern (including railcard discounts).

There are some that formerly had through ticketing arrangements. Ones that I've used or seen:
Bodmin & Wenford
Ffestiniog Railway
Severn Valley Railway
Swanage Railway (to Corfe Castle)

Any others?


Re: Heritage railways and how they connect with the larger infrastructure
Posted by Trowres at 23:06, 27th August 2025
 
One major difference between UK heritage railways and the majority of the German narrow gauge steam lines is that the latter were mostly transferred as “going concerns” from DB to a “private” company (in most cases probably majority local authority owned, complete with subsidies, possibly lucrative contracts for schools traffic etc. They are also almost exclusively in areas that qualify/qualified for numerous EU grants. As such their financing structure bears little resemblance to what we would understand as a heritage railway. The German equivalents of those look enviously across the channel…

Thank you for this thought-provoking answer. It's always difficult making international comparisons. What you say does surprise me: do German local authorities really have cash available to subsidise steam railways? Are EU funds really directed to areas that look - from Graham's photos - to be extremely well-off?

Maybe UK heritage railways have subsidies that aren't available in Germany? I'm thinking of the zero-VAT in UK, whereas VAT is levied on train fares in Germany.

Re: Heritage railways and how they connect with the larger infrastructure
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 21:26, 27th August 2025
 
Dredging up from my memory banks (such as they remain), don't the South Devon Railway have some reciprocal arrangements at Totnes? 


Re: Heritage railways and how they connect with the larger infrastructure
Posted by Oxonhutch at 20:55, 27th August 2025
 
There are places where this co-operation has led to fruitful interactions to the mutual benefit of the national and heritage railways. The Spa Valley Railway with their parallel running into Eridge and the Chinnor and Princes Risborough with their brand new Chinnor Independent Line parallel to NR's Thame Branch Siding.

I think a few others have through ticketing arrangements as well.

Re: Heritage railways and how they connect with the larger infrastructure
Posted by Sulis John at 12:48, 27th August 2025
 
One major difference between UK heritage railways and the majority of the German narrow gauge steam lines is that the latter were mostly transferred as “going concerns” from DB to a “private” company (in most cases probably majority local authority owned, complete with subsidies, possibly lucrative contracts for schools traffic etc. They are also almost exclusively in areas that qualify/qualified for numerous EU grants. As such their financing structure bears little resemblance to what we would understand as a heritage railway. The German equivalents of those look enviously across the channel…

Re: Heritage railways and how they connect with the larger infrastructure
Posted by Witham Bobby at 12:15, 27th August 2025
 
The UK - or perhaps I should say England? - seems to be very good at providing reasons why things can't happen.

Many so-called heritage railways here are in some sort of financial difficulty at the moment. There's a recent thread on https://www.railforums.co.uk/ on this topic. It's rather dismal reading; contributors suggestions seem to include retrenchement - fewer operating days or trimmed timetables - and more drift away from being a genuine heritage railway towards some sort of sedate fairground ride "experience".

Another thread discusses main-line links. Again:,dismal reading: not worth the effort. Few passengers for the cost and effort etc. ( I have to say in this context that the main line railway hasn't helped -a thought that I may develop later).

When Grahame mentioned the Mollibahn (another line to the coast), I started to wonder about its business model. Its summer timetable (which runs until 2nd November) starts at 0640, with a nearly hourly service until the last train arrives back at 19:24. Seven days a week, I believe; and the railway's PDF timetable shows connecting train services.

Having sat across the "negotiating" table from BR Divisional Management at Bristol attempting to get WSR trains into and out of Taunton (it would have been so much easier back then, with an independent line in the form of the old Up Relief, available from the junction at MP 165.25 all the way into the bay platforms on the Up side at Taunton) I think the attitude of the Big Railway is always going to be a huge part of the problem.

I was told that, having shut the branch, the BR folks didn't want it to open again so that their error would be exposed.  The huge costs for what was then known as a Running Powers Agreement, and for the initial alterations to the layout and signalling were non-negotiable, and completely unrealistic for the 1970s WSR to afford

I suspect the BR Management didn't want to force a confrontation with the NUR, either.  The union had "blacked" the WSR, with the aim of safeguarding the jobs of NUR member bus drivers at Taunton and Minehead

Re: Heritage railways and how they connect with the larger infrastructure
Posted by grahame at 19:58, 23rd August 2025
 
When Grahame mentioned the Mollibahn (another line to the coast), I started to wonder about its business model. Its summer timetable (which runs until 2nd November) starts at 0640, with a nearly hourly service until the last train arrives back at 19:24. Seven days a week, I believe; and the railway's PDF timetable shows connecting train services.

Kuhlungsborn has a population of around 8000 and is a smart residential town with plenty of very nice homes within very easy walking distance of the station - train into Bad Doberan with a connection onward to Rostock and also one on to Wismar. Rostock is a substantial working city. Buses also run and it's very much a suburban / commuter town into Rostock that Minehead probably isn't for those reliant on public transport into Taunton.

Plenty of hotel / leisure traffic outbound to both Kuhlungsborn and Heiligendamm and towns that are naturally set up for public transport, cycling, walking.

Some pictures from earlier this year and from last ... one streetview too as I didn't take any pictures in the streets near the station.

Edit to add - 3 stations (east, middle, west) along the line in Kuhlungsborn. Each - I think - with a close area of residential housing around them for train commutes, and an early Monday to Friday train all year into Bad Doberan.

Further edit to add - there is a tourist (room) tax in the wider Rostock area - and on paying in visitors are issues with a bus and tram (?train ?not Mollibahn) ticket covering the duration of their stay. I suspect in makes a difference as to whether people park up or use public transport during their stay, and to the finances of the whole operations.












Re: Heritage railways and how they connect with the larger infrastructure
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 16:52, 23rd August 2025
 
This discussion is going to be more general than "Minehead Rail Link Group" - should it be split off?

No sooner said than done, Trowres. 

Thank you for your post. CfN. 

Heritage railways and how they connect with the larger infrastructure
Posted by Trowres at 15:50, 23rd August 2025
 
The UK - or perhaps I should say England? - seems to be very good at providing reasons why things can't happen.

Many so-called heritage railways here are in some sort of financial difficulty at the moment. There's a recent thread on https://www.railforums.co.uk/ on this topic. It's rather dismal reading; contributors suggestions seem to include retrenchement - fewer operating days or trimmed timetables - and more drift away from being a genuine heritage railway towards some sort of sedate fairground ride "experience".

Another thread discusses main-line links. Again:,dismal reading: not worth the effort. Few passengers for the cost and effort etc. ( I have to say in this context that the main line railway hasn't helped -a thought that I may develop later).

When Grahame mentioned the Mollibahn (another line to the coast), I started to wonder about its business model. Its summer timetable (which runs until 2nd November) starts at 0640, with a nearly hourly service until the last train arrives back at 19:24. Seven days a week, I believe; and the railway's PDF timetable shows connecting train services.

This discussion is going to be more general than "Minehead Rail Link Group" - should it be split off?

 
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